Units including monstrous creatures

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Units including monstrous creatures

Postby CmdrVimes » Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:57 am

First, there used to be rule that monstrous creatures can be picked out of a unit. Does that still exist and where? I looked and could not find it. Second. If a hive tyrant with tyrant guard is behind another unit, the guard would get a cover save but wouldn't the hive tyrant get the save also, since the majority of the unit is in cover? Wondering what people thought of this.
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Postby n00bzilla99 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:30 am

Yes, such a rule does still exist, I believe it is under the MC and cover rule... but I'm not 100% sure.

As for the case of the Tyrant Guard and Hive Tyrant, yes it would get cover since half of the unit is in cover, and that's what matters for units of different models according to the BRB.
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Postby DragonBait » Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:22 pm

I've come into the same issue with my Tomb Spyder and it's accompanying scarab swarms. In fairness I've been giving my opponent the benefit and ruling it as this since cover works different for monstrous creatures and infantry. If I take wounds on the squad, I allocate them and get cover saves based on each model (given that I only usually make 1 scarab swarm). So if the scarabs are partially concealed they get the cover, but the Tomb Spyder needs to be 50% or more concealed by terrain, other units, etc....Sound about right?
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:26 am

DragonBait wrote:I've come into the same issue with my Tomb Spyder and it's accompanying scarab swarms. In fairness I've been giving my opponent the benefit and ruling it as this since cover works different for monstrous creatures and infantry. If I take wounds on the squad, I allocate them and get cover saves based on each model (given that I only usually make 1 scarab swarm). So if the scarabs are partially concealed they get the cover, but the Tomb Spyder needs to be 50% or more concealed by terrain, other units, etc....Sound about right?


I think you are short changing yourself and any wounds allocated to the Spider would get the cover save also. Hey this is 5th edition and the MC isn't in a transport so it needs all the help it can get
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Postby CmdrVimes » Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:46 am

I'd still like to know where the rule for picking out monstrous creatures is in the book if someone can give me a page number please?
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Postby Turtle » Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:38 am

the rule for picking out mc's does not exist
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Postby seahawk » Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:58 pm

Nothing covers what happens with two different unit TYPES joining each other though. The only other precedent that's somewhat the same is for vehicle squadrons. Technically they are a unit, but for cover purposes you must determine who gets cover on a model by model basis. This is the way I'd do it for MC/regular unit mixes; so if there are three Tyrant Guards and a Tyrant and two Guard are in area terrain, the Guards get cover saves but the Tyrant doesn't.
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Postby n00bzilla99 » Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:47 pm

This is the way I'd do it for MC/regular unit mixes; so if there are three Tyrant Guards and a Tyrant and two Guard are in area terrain, the Guards get cover saves but the Tyrant doesn't.


I don't think this is how it works.

Please refer to page 22. Under the 2nd paragraph on the right hand side.

It reads "If half or more of the models in the target UNIT are in cover, then the entire unit is deemed to be in cover and ALL of it's models may take cover saves."

Because the Hive Tyrant and its Tyrant Guard form a single unit when joined, their cover saves are not worked out on a 50% per model basis.

If I have a single Tyrant Guard and a Hive Tyrant, and just the Tyrant guard (50% of the unit) is in area terrain, then both the Tyrant and the Guard benefit from cover saves because of page 22 and the fact that they form a unit.

If you have a unit of 3 MC's, if two of them are considered in cover, wouldn't the third get the benefit of that cover as well? Yes they would because they form a single unit which is 50% or more in cover, and may therefore take cover saves for the entire unit.

The INAT FAQ also agrees with me on a RAW basis. Ref (TYR.35B.01)

As for picking MC's out of models, I was mistaken, that rule no longer exists.
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Postby Turtle » Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:53 pm

adeptusbrew has it spot on
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:46 am

Abrew for the win.
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Postby CmdrVimes » Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:23 am

OK thanks. I didn't think I missed it.
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Postby seahawk » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:48 am

Well, quoting the INAT has no weight because, after all, it is just an unofficial set house rules (extensive though they may be!). But you're right, as the basic unit rules do override the necessity for MC's to need 50% covered. I can roll with that!
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Postby Crumpsky » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:57 pm

Seahawk, I think he took the ruling from the book, and also quoted the INAT...
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Postby n00bzilla99 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:33 pm

I used the INAT ruling because it stated that it's ruling was based on RAW, not as a "rules change" which means that the answer to the question could be found in the text already given to us.

I didn't mean to push INAT as the be all end all of FAQ's, but what I meant by it was that there are other opinions that agree with me on a RAW basis. Like crumpsky said, my answer was completely based on a BRB and RAW basis.
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Postby seahawk » Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:04 pm

Yep! S'why I said I could roll with it 'cause it did come from the book.
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