fortune/doom into assault?

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fortune/doom into assault?

Postby the_obeast » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:09 pm

can a farseer fortune a unit in assault? :?:

doom discussion starts around the middle of Page 3
Last edited by the_obeast on Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.
rofl.
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Postby n00bzilla99 » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:00 pm

In assault? or a unit charging.

If he is giving it to a unit who charges, then why not.

a unit IN assault? No he cannot, he cannot target units who are engaged in close combat, friendly or foe. And the "guide" attack TARGETS another unit, so no.

There is no way to get around this theo, you cannot enhance your guys in close combat once they are there. I've told you like 10000x in real life.

YOU CANNOT TARGET UNITS IN CLOSE COMBAT!!!!!! even if it is a "non-shooting psychic power" such as guide or doom.
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Postby Redbeard » Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:49 am

Actually, why not?

If it isn't a power that replaces shooting (mind war, eldritch storm) then why is it subject to shooting rules that prohibit targetting units in combat?

There's no such limit on the power in the main rulebook, and none in the power descritpion. I'd say you could do it. Why you'd want to, however, is another matter. Guide only helps to-hit rolls in the shooting phase.
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Postby the_obeast » Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:04 pm

I meant to say Fortune, not Guide :P

anyone else able to prove it either way?
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Postby Mad Jack Deacon » Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:32 pm

I've had a Farseer guide a unit of Wraithguard he's attached himself to. Survived two full units of gaunts and a unit of hormaguants in CC.

The rule states to "nominate a unit with a model within 6". It doesn't say anything about not being able to target a unit in CC. And if a Necron Lord can VOD a unit that's in CC, I'd say a Farseer could Fortune one.
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Postby n00bzilla99 » Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:18 pm

The lord has to be within 6" and if so, he takes that squad with them, he doesn't target them

to "Fortune" a unit, like the_obeast is describing is to have the farseer not in close combat with the squad and fortune them, you have to pick a TARGET for the power to have an effect, so you can fortune a certain squad, which is targeting.

You can't target units in CC.
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Postby guyinthecorner » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:47 am

Well, you can't target a unit in CC per the shooting rules. Fortune and guide do not replace shooting.

Plus, the wording is "nominate," not target, right? If GW meant "target" they would have written "target." I've not found any restriction in the BGB on "nominating."

Farseers can use Fortune and Guide into CC, even if they are not involved in the combat.

By the way, what difference would it make the farseer was involved in the combat?
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Postby myles » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:17 am

AdeptusBrewCityJoe wrote:In assault? or a unit charging.

If he is giving it to a unit who charges, then why not.

a unit IN assault? No he cannot, he cannot target units who are engaged in close combat, friendly or foe. And the "guide" attack TARGETS another unit, so no.

There is no way to get around this theo, you cannot enhance your guys in close combat once they are there. I've told you like 10000x in real life.

YOU CANNOT TARGET UNITS IN CLOSE COMBAT!!!!!! even if it is a "non-shooting psychic power" such as guide or doom.


Where does it say that you cannot target a unit in assault? I can't seem to find that rule anywhere myself.

Sure it says that units in close combat may not become casualties due to shooting (with a few exceptions) which normally means that you are not allowed to target them with shooting. But I can't seem to find an actual restriction on targeting units in combat myself.

And since fortune does not inflict casualties via shooting, I can't seem to find where that would be restricted...
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Postby the_obeast » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:02 pm

I'll post what the Eldar Codex says:
Farseer Psychic Powers:
Unless otherwise noted, these powers work as described in the Psychic Powers section of the 40K rulebook, are used at the start of the Eldar player's turn, and do not require the Eldar psyker to have a line of sight to the target.

ok, now fortune:
Fortune:The Farseer scries the strands of the future to forsee where the enemy will attack, warning his fellow Eldar so that they may avoid enemy fire.
Nominate one eldar unit with a model within 6" of the Farseer. This unit re-rolls any failed saves it makes until the start of the next Eldar turn.


Here is proof that is is not targeting anything:
Doom:The Farseer searches the thread of destiny that spells the destruction of an enemy and draws it into being. The Farseer can target any non-vehicle unit within 24".

which means they purposely used the word nominate to show that it does not target the unit.
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Postby guyinthecorner » Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:54 am

Of course, because Doom says, "Farseer can target any non-vehicle unit," it can probably be cast into CC as well.
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Postby n00bzilla99 » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:13 pm

guyinthecorner wrote:Of course, because Doom says, "Farseer can target any non-vehicle unit," it can probably be cast into CC as well.


That's great, but we aren't talking about Doom, we are talking about Fortune.

myles wrote:AdeptusBrewCityJoe wrote:
In assault? or a unit charging.

If he is giving it to a unit who charges, then why not.

a unit IN assault? No he cannot, he cannot target units who are engaged in close combat, friendly or foe. And the "guide" attack TARGETS another unit, so no.

There is no way to get around this theo, you cannot enhance your guys in close combat once they are there. I've told you like 10000x in real life.

YOU CANNOT TARGET UNITS IN CLOSE COMBAT!!!!!! even if it is a "non-shooting psychic power" such as guide or doom.



Where does it say that you cannot target a unit in assault? I can't seem to find that rule anywhere myself.

Sure it says that units in close combat may not become casualties due to shooting (with a few exceptions) which normally means that you are not allowed to target them with shooting. But I can't seem to find an actual restriction on targeting units in combat myself.

And since fortune does not inflict casualties via shooting, I can't seem to find where that would be restricted...


Pg. 19 on the shooting page briefly mentions it:

Target Priority, etc etc...

Exceptions: Units are always able to ignore targets which cannot be fired on (units IN close combat, for example.) etc etc.


Then on page 44:
Models belonging to units locked in combat may not fire weapons in the Shooting Phase...
Likewise, while especially twisted and soulless commanders may wish their warriors to fire indiscrminately into the middle of close combats in the hopes of hitting the enemy, this is not permitted.


You Cannot shoot into Close Combat, or while you are in close combat.

Nominate and Target are almost the SAME thing, if you nominate a unit, you have made it the Target. And you cannot target units locked in assault.

My answer is still NO.

A side note as well, it is ALMOST like shooting, the Farseer might accidentally Fortune enemy models if they are locked in a swirling melee, because it is like a bullet, who knows who it is going to hit?
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Postby Redbeard » Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:26 pm

AdeptusBrewCityJoe wrote:
You Cannot shoot into Close Combat, or while you are in close combat.

Nominate and Target are almost the SAME thing, if you nominate a unit, you have made it the Target. And you cannot target units locked in assault.

My answer is still NO.


Your answer is still wrong, and you're neglecting the fact that neither Guide, Fortune, nor Doom are considered shooting. They don't even take place during the shooting phase. Quoting shooting rules is all well and good for powers that replace a shooting attack. For powers that are not considered shooting, the shooting rules simply don't apply. For those powers, you have to read the power's description, and none of Guide, Fortune, or Doom have any limits regarding the combat status of the unit they target.
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Postby Carrick » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:48 pm

I think someone should ask a redshirt or call the Rulesboyz. :wink:
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Postby the_obeast » Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:46 pm

who are you referring to as a redshirt?
rofl.
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Postby Carrick » Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:50 pm

I was making a reference to Redbeard's Law.

I give up trying to be amusing. :cry:
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