Point Of View (part 2)

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Point Of View (part 2)

Postby TimSchmidt » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:09 am

Some to the point questions?

1. Should Forge world rules be Banned from the RTT and the Team Tournment?

2. Should AWC try to have composition and some sportmanship be judged before the game is played.
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Postby PPCLI » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:20 am

My opinion;

1. Yes

2. No
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Postby Shotgun » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:36 am

1. No, within limits. Should we ban Lost and the Damned? The book is old, not everyone may have it. What about Dark Eldar? Most retailers don't even carry the models anymore. Like it or not, forgeworld is a part of the game. Requiring the player to have a copy of the actual rules should be adequate for players to adapt.

2. How? Judged team comp was done prior to dice rolling. We have tried to do a "prejudged" comp prior with a "modifier" afterwards and it wasn't that effective.
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Postby hornblower » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:11 am

1. No. But I think the FW army lists shouldn't be allowed.

2. No. Too difficult to pull off. No matter what you do, some tool is going to slam someone else, before or after the game is irrelevant.
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Postby flatlanderboss » Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:02 pm

No and No.
"How many of the armies here were painted by you guys?"

"Enough."
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Postby muwhe » Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:04 pm

Tim,

Can I just ask a question. Your starting a ton of posts about fair lists, Forgeworld items ..

Yet .. what did you feel was a proper list to take to the Championship event?

Would you be posting any of this had you not gotten the sportsmanship scores you got for bringing the forcefield bubbled 2 Giant Squiggoth 50 Big Shoota shots a turn beast?


I'll take what I want to a tourney and take the scores that someone gives me it's that simple.


1. No.
2. No.
Last edited by muwhe on Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby CaptKaruthors » Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:19 pm

No and no. I like Forgeworld stuff... oh if they only allowed flyers...:)

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Postby Centurian99 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:50 pm

1) No. See my post here:
http://www.adeptuswindycity.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=384#384

2) Great in theory. As long as you can figure out a way to squeeze in 14 hours into 12, I'm all for it. Figure the extra walk time for people to do their comp judging, turn it in, have the organizers verify it, go back to their tables...

There's a reason why all the events had "event packets" with all the missions in them, and it wasn't to give players more time to read the missions.
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Postby artificer » Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:52 pm

Centurian99 wrote:2) Great in theory. As long as you can figure out a way to squeeze in 14 hours into 12, I'm all for it. Figure the extra walk time for people to do their comp judging, turn it in, have the organizers verify it, go back to their tables...


I don't think Tim means "before all gaming begins" but "at the start of each specific round" So you'd meet with your opponent, exchange lists, answer any questions they might have, and then each score the army comp BEFORE you/they hand the other team their a**es.
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Postby TimSchmidt » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:46 pm

muwhe wrote:Tim,

Can I just ask a question. Your starting a ton of posts about fair lists, Forgeworld items ..

Yet .. what did you feel was a proper list to take to the Championship event?

Would you be posting any of this had you not gotten the sportsmanship scores you got for bringing the forcefield bubbled 2 Giant Squiggoth 50 Big Shoota shots a turn beast?
.


Actually this has nothing to do with my scores. I fully knew the risk I took and was willing to except the results. The Idea is driven by the quest for knowledge. what the AC gamer is looking for... is it tough games using citidal rules only...or is it tough games using any rules that are published by any source.
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Postby Centurian99 » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:26 am

artificer wrote:
Centurian99 wrote:2) Great in theory. As long as you can figure out a way to squeeze in 14 hours into 12, I'm all for it. Figure the extra walk time for people to do their comp judging, turn it in, have the organizers verify it, go back to their tables...


I don't think Tim means "before all gaming begins" but "at the start of each specific round" So you'd meet with your opponent, exchange lists, answer any questions they might have, and then each score the army comp BEFORE you/they hand the other team their a**es.


I knew what he meant. I'm pointing out that you'd need to add 15-30 minutes a round, minimum, for everyone to have time to fill out those cards, turn them in, have the reg desk check to make sure they're filled out correctly...

It's a nice idea in theory. But logistically its simply unworkable in a tournament the size of AdeptiCon's 40K events with the time constraints that we're under.
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Postby tcmd » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:30 am

My experience with forgeworld rules at Adepticon was very mixed.

One of my opponent teams was either unwilling or unable to explain to me what was going on in an understandable fashion and only provided a copy of those rules when my team mate demanded it. They were continually rolling for odd effects without explaining what they were rolling. That game was VERY frustrating. Even though we won easily, it was probably the only game all 3 days I really did not enjoy.

Another team responded to questions in a clear concise manner, and explained ahead of time what they were doing and what the effects would/could be. Before they rolled any dice I was crystal on what to expect from the roll. I lost that game, but enjoyed it immensely.

If everyone playing forgeworld could be like the second team I'd be for keeping it. Having endured the first team, I'd prefer to see forgeworld restricted to gladiator.
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Postby WhiteRaven » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:44 am

1. No. Forgeworld doesn't exactly have to conform to any balance restrictions to publish a rule. The specific example I have is that nearly every Nid army I saw all weekend had those Giant Mine things. If every list/codex had a no brainer forgeworld choice to insert into thier list then ok...but Forgeworld clearly favours some armies over others due to differences in quantity of releases between armies.

2. Coming from the land of Soft Scores...I have to advise AC to stay away from more soft scores. My team and I got into a lengthy discussion with Ogre, Hank and Joe on sunday night about this. There are a few fundamental problems beyond just the logistics of getting scores tallied up.

a) No matter how "fair" you think your list is and how jovial you try to be, if you draw the wrong opponent and punk them...you are compeletly done from the running because they tank your softscores.

b) Composition has loads of grey area, even if you simply boil it down to how one list matches up against another. Even if you mark your comp before the game...if you know your list and have no way to deal with combo X, Y or Z in mine (plus you are a bad sport)...I am going to have my comp hosed.

I truely liked this weekend that it came down to generalship (and that includes list building and tweaking). As long as we all have the same GW option available (keeping FW out of this for now) I'm willing to play any list!
Regards,
WR
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Postby skkipper » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:53 am

here is a question on how to deal with certian situations?

1 game played against a team and they only had 1 hand written army list. so i had to keep asking what his army had. once i asked what his grey knight lord had? his response "everything".

2 next played against tau. the models were not wysiwyg or painted for the most part and they also had only a hand written list.

what is the best way to handle these. How do these people get past registration and judging. There was an army builder station with a printer that was available to use. I am sure the hotel has a copy machine.
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Postby artificer » Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:51 pm

skkipper wrote:here is a question on how to deal with certian situations?


Frankly, while a little annoying, it's perfectly legal to give hand written lists. I agree that with the free use of army builder, nobody should have had chicken-scratched army lists... but that's an ideal world, I guess.

1 That's a crap answer he gave you. He's either unclear on what his own model has, or is 'hiding something'. Make him produce a legible list to SHOW you what the lord has. If he can't... sorry, game over -

2 again, tough situation, especially with all the battle-suit options. I'd personally play it cool unless the other team were a bunch of tools, in which case I'd invoke a judges ruling. A simple "Sorry to bother you Judge, but I just had a squad get gakked by a weapon that's not on the table" might draw some attention.

In almost every case like this, I'd say let the other teams' demeanor determine the course to follow.


edited - goofed up quote function :roll:
Last edited by artificer on Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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'08 TT - Casus Belli
'09 TT - Cede Malis
'10 Paint Judging and Terrain Monkey
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