Did the judges have a preference for non-symetric armies?

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Did the judges have a preference for non-symetric armies?

Postby Ed » Sun May 13, 2007 10:50 am

Some people are rumbling that the judges for the team tournament might have given preference to teams comprised of different armies as opposed to teams with 4 cookie cutter lists.

Just curious. Thanks! :)

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Postby Matthias » Sun May 13, 2007 2:07 pm

For painting, on my side - not at all.

Four Armies that had some aesthetic commonalites was a good thing - but I am talking more along the lines of common basing, color schemes, iconography, etc. - not about the codex chosen.

I assume you are talking more about theme scores...
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Postby Shotgun » Mon May 14, 2007 9:14 am

I think once people get past the mental block that "past performance is not indicative of future potential" then people will be alot happier.

The theme judges changed year after year. The theme judge sheets change year after year. If you took the same army two years in a row, I can guarentee you will get two different scores each of those years.

Now, as a previous theme judge I can say that yes, cookie cutter lists bore the hell out of me and don't say theme to me except in several highly specific situations. Maybe four Ultramarine lists would fit a cookie cutter style. Four identicle space wolves most definately wouldn't. By extension, four godzilla lists didn't do as hot as others in my book as well. Sure, its legal and effective, but its theme for gameplay reasons. Cookie cutter lists can be effective, but should have a reason for the cookie cutter and "carinfexs kick ass" is not a valid theme reason.

I gave huge props to the Bug/LotD larmy last year because it told a story. They said "bug infestation" from start to finish, and said the best way to do that was by using LotD to represent a stealer cult. Hugely original in my opinion.

I think the peanut gallery is asking the wrong questions. Instead of asking do the judges favor mixed lists over cookie cutter, they should be asking themselves if the mixed lists conveyed their theme better than cookie cutter lists.
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Postby Redbeard » Mon May 14, 2007 10:36 am

I'm curious to know, in terms of theme, is it "army theme" or "team theme" that matters?

In order to have a shot at this, do we have to dress up like characters from our army? Can a well-themed army stand on its own merits, or is playing dress-up (with banners, costumes, etc) pretty much required if you want to have a chance at best theme?
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Postby Papa_Nurgle » Mon May 14, 2007 10:45 am

I've always found that playing dress up helps.
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Postby Shotgun » Mon May 14, 2007 11:38 am

Redbeard wrote:I'm curious to know, in terms of theme, is it "army theme" or "team theme" that matters?

In order to have a shot at this, do we have to dress up like characters from our army? Can a well-themed army stand on its own merits, or is playing dress-up (with banners, costumes, etc) pretty much required if you want to have a chance at best theme?


I don't think you will ever see Adepticon pigeon hole itself with "expectations" for theme where it "requires" something to happen to win.

I certainly wouldn't expect a team to dress up. Is it nice and does it get you points if you all have a tshirt or something? Certainly. But I don't think you are going to get anyone to say that it was the costumes that put last year's winners over the top.

Best thing you can do is not worry about what "xyz" did last year to win, but what are you going to do next year to compete.

Pick a couple things and do them well. Make sure everything you add adds to the story you are trying to tell.

Do everything you can to convey something visually and not in the "fluff sheet". Sorry, its just physically impossible for the judges to read them in the time allowed.

Don't be afraid to think outside the box when it comes to list selection. If you're theme is "Chaos Insurrection" and you have a LotD list with Word Bearers, a fallen IG list using IG rules, a loyal IG list and possibly a Inquistor list with Grey Knights take choices that support that theme. For example, not all sentinels on a back sector world are going to have lascannons. The power lifter version blows rules wise, but it would support the theme. That would be four different lists that people might not say are "themey" but taken in the right context, would support those choices.

Four Ultramarine successor chapters with 4 companies (say 3, 5, 6, and 8) might support a cookie cutter approach.

Just don't make your army choices drive your theme, let your theme drive your army...if you are going to shoot for wining best theme.
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Postby Papa_Nurgle » Mon May 14, 2007 12:38 pm

To echo that:

How about an Adeptus Mechanicus list with the following look:

LatD to represent Skitarri warriors as Nurgle gifted mutants.
Iron Warriors with 2 units of Oblits to represent high tech robots.
* For the two above, demonic gifts could represent bionic implants.
Regular IG w/mechanized doctrine and heavily modified tanks.
WH force with lots of the walkers and arco flagellants.

4 lists that wouldn't normally fit together, but the theme and appearance would tie them together.

Another thought:

Take a Novel (Dead Sky Black Sun)

CSM representing some of the renegades
C:SM representing the loyalists
LatD with chaos spawn (LOTS of chaos spawn and spiney beasts) for the nasty monstrosities
Krooty Mercs for other beasties.

Lots of opportunities for differing lists - key is modelling and presentation. If someone walking by can identify the theme with a quick look (sign saying "Dead Sky Black Sun" would help) then your theme is successful. If people have to say, "what's that?" then no matter how good your fluff is, you are unsuccessful.

Heck, go with the Ciaphus Cain novels and you have guard, Tau, and the inquisition working together.

Storm of Iron has IG and Marines, so does the 2nd Ultramarine novel.

The Blood Raven series has Eldar and Marines working together.

I believe the key is not in how you dress up, but how you present your armies.

Just my .02 - Dressing up is just for fun. YAY Helga.
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